Jo Takimba: My name’s Jo Takimba. I’ve been here in Portland for about 11 years now. Moved up here from Northern California.

 

AK: When you first moved to Portland, were you aware of, or did you have an idea of what the Portland music scene was at the time?

 

JT: Not really. I did know that there was a lot of diverse pockets of different kinds of music which was really cool for me because I like certain things but I also like to get out my comfort zone. There’s a lot of really good rock music, or there was back then. And there’s a whole DJ scene. There’s bluegrass and jam stuff. So I didn’t really know about it before moving up but quickly after getting here I got to see a lot of the diversity in the music scene around here.

 

AK: Did you DJ before you moved up here?

 

JT: Yeah, I’ve been DJing since 2000. 

 

AK: Tell me what moving here did to your DJing career.

 

JT: Well it’s a bigger city than where I was living before. I was playing pretty much weekly in the last town I was living in, but it was a small venue where we’d have like 100 people every week. And coming up here, there’s a lot of different sized venues, a lot of bigger acts that are coming through so opening acts as a DJ gives you a lot more access to connect with more people and stuff. I’ve played in probably 10-15 venues here around town and some of them fit like 800 or 1000 people, all the way down to smaller things. So helped me to get out into a lot of different scenes for sure. 

 

AK: Do you think that if you had moved to a place of similar size or maybe bigger that you would have been able to get yourself out in the market as much?

 

JT: Yeah. Probably. It’s all about networking and I’m pretty good at that. I also have a radio show and so I’m able to connect with a lot of different people on a lot of different levels. It’s hard to say. I did live in San Francisco for a little while years ago and was able to get out into that scene too, but it’s kind of hard to say. I would say probably.

 

AK: So do you feel like the music that you play for people has been influenced in a way by being in Portland as opposed to being in San Francisco?

 

JT: Not necessarily. Right now everything is in a digital medium and so a lot of the music that I get is from different parts of the world. And since things are so digital at this point I’m able to get things two hours after they’re dropped where I started on vinyl years ago and you’d have to go to the record shop, and go to the right record shop that got things in time, and you only have a certain amount of time while the records are fresh, or whatever. But at this point, it’s digital and we’re working with people from all different countries and all different places and so I feel I would probably have the same access no matter where I was living. 

 

AK: So then what draws you to be in Portland then?

 

JT: Oh so much more, but I did have a long list of all the things that Portland was that none of these other cities were. And as we’re growing, some of those things are getting checked off. 

 

AK: Like what?

 

JT: Well I first came up here for a radio convention and I knew that I knew like three people up here. And I connected with each of them – one on each day of the convention. So they’d come pick me up downtown and I’d go to their place, which was one was in South-West, one was in North-East, one was in South-East. And so I was able to feel these distinct vibes from each of the neighborhoods. But each of the locations – it was a house. The houses weren’t squashed up on each other, and so it was really attractive to me that I could live in a full house that was affordable. And I could live in a full house and there isn’t people peeing on your doorstep, and parking was easy and there wasn’t really a charge for it or anything, and so all that. A lot of the diversity, and I’m a big fan of music, and food, and art. And here it’s a very artistic place. It was back then. I feel like it’s really gotten diluted with the people that have moved to town. I feel like a lot of the people to town, they always say keep Portland weird and stuff, and I think a lot of the people that move here are more about looking at the weird people rather than becoming them. Yeah, there’s still a lot of really great things about it, but like I said parking is one of those things now. I’m not a big fan of sharing walls and even though I have my own house, a lot of my friends are living in apartments at this point and they’re paying as much for their apartment as I did for my house when I was renting that. In often cases, even more. So there’s still amazing food here. There’s still amazing art here. There’s still amazing music here, and a lot of those things thrive. But I feel like it’s been relatively diluted to where… You used to walk down the street and everybody that you were seeing was one of those people in one way, and we all really inspired each other and there’s a lot of creative energy going through the town, and no real limitations or anything. And now there’s a lot of other people between you and those people. So where we all were one conglomerate of artistic people I guess you could say, now there’s a lot of other people in the mix. And so now when you look in a crowd instead of being right next to all the artistic people, there’s like five or ten people between you and them. It’s still there, it’s just been maybe diluted a little bit.

 

AK: Is that something you notice both from the stage and in the audience too? So is this something that you see crossing over into your music scene as well?

 

JT: Yeah, but really from the stage it doesn’t really affect that much because a lot of people really seem to like what I’m doing, and that’s one of the beautiful things about it is that I’m able to grow with the city. So the people that are coming in, still they come to my shows whether they are fresh or old school. And I also have a company that does silent disco and my company is really grown with the city. Because we really focus on community and a lot of people move here from different locations. They don’t know necessarily how to connect with people, and we’re all about building community. So when people come to our events, are able to meet a lot of people… it kind of is maybe a little bit of a filter for that dilution. A lot of the “normal people” quote unquote are still at their home watching TV or doing whatever while all the people that are really interested in being creative and getting out there and connecting are getting together at our events.

 

AK: Do you feel though that the quote unquote normal people that have infiltrated the community – do you feel like instinctually you’re more embracive of them in coming to a music scene? Rather than the person who’s building a six person condo two feet from somebody else’s house? Do you see people differently when they come into the music scene? Maybe that’s what I’m trying to say.

 

JT: No, not really, no. And it’s not like there’s any really distinct look or act from people. One of the beautiful things about Portland is it’s like a home for black sheep. You know what I mean? If I meet somebody from Michigan or from Texas or California or wherever it is, the reason that they came here is because it’s someplace special, and that they didn’t feel comfortable where they were living. At this point there’s a good amount of people who move here for financial reasons. They move here from San Francisco, they sell their house down there and they can buy two of them up here. Or buy one, and they like the prices a little bit better. Looking out at the crowd last night for example, I can’t tell who’s new to town and who’s been here for a while other than the people that I actually know. 

 

AK: Do you get a vibe though at all, just in the town in general, do you feel that the Portland community as a whole is still as supportive of the music scene here as it was when you first here?

 

JT: I do. I mean it depends on as a community, and as people, I definitely do. With the city, there’s been a lot of things that have changed over the years. I forget, it might have been Charlie Hales, and this was probably six or seven years ago. Basically they hired a new fire chief and they did not want hip-hop or electronic music in the city really. And so they made a concerted effort to go out to multiple venues in town and basically tell them that they needed to do these upgrades to their property to be able to stay as a venue. So we lost four in about three months, and then there was another place, a bigger place called Refuge, and I knew the owner over there. And they told her the only way she’d be able to do it is if she did this $500,000 upgrade to her old sprinkler system and everything and all this stuff. And so she didn’t want to be shut down like all those other people and so she went for it. She took a year to totally remodel her whole place. Put in all the sprinkler system and everything to make it up to speed for what they wanted. And then at the end of the day they didn’t give her her liquor license and so she still had to throw shows without alcohol. Which is a lot less attractive to people that are going out at night and stuff. And was able to make it for a while, but she eventually had to shut her doors which was definitely unfortunate. It was a really cool community space, and they had all kinds of shows there. Live shows, and they had DJs, and they had hip-hop, and all that. So yeah I forgot what the initial question was.

 

AK: So do you think that there is a concentrated effort from people in the local government to…

 

JT: Yes.

 

AK: Do you feel then like there’s any sort of equal representation of the flip side of that?

 

JT: No, I don’t think there’s any resource for people that have venues, or artists to be able to show support for that kind of stuff. There’s no place that I can go to speak with the city and let them know people that go to electronic music shows aren’t bad. Or even get a solid answer on how it would affect community or what their concerns are.

 

AK: So why do you think they are making these efforts?

 

JT: Well they have their own impressions of things that go on in these places. Hip-hop, for years has been associated with gangs, and guns, and kind of violence and that kind of stuff. But we also live in a… it’s very white up here. And so people have their own perspectives. I mean that’s why hip-hop is the way it is. That’s why the only stuff that you hear on the radio is stuff that’s talking about cars or guns or liquor or whatever, because all the people that are conscious MCs out there that are really trying to change the world – they don’t get radio play because there’s no money in it. And the deeper thing is it’s a divide that they definitely support and promote throughout our nation. And so I work in radio – I do community radio. And I’m able to play anything that I want. But commercial radio – the playlists are all preprogrammed by Chevrolet, McDonalds, all these huge corporations that are like… You know they basically pick the playlist and they’re like play Led Zeppelin, or play 50 Cent, or whatever it is so there’s only certain things that they want out there.

 

AK: At this point are you optimistic or pessimistic about the developments in the city and how they’re relating to some of these things with the clubs?

 

JT: As far as it relates with the clubs and everything, I don’t know. I haven’t seen too much very recently other than specific instances. Like they’re not getting shut down every couple days. I haven’t heard anything too much. Actually there’s been some stuff within maybe the last six months where it seems like the fire code thing they’re using that again. And the whole weird thing about that is three years ago, about two years after Refuge got shut down, there’s an article that came out in the Willamette Week that said that the fire department… that they were illegally shutting people down. And they had a number of examples. And my friend was still going through her trials with the whole thing, and it really didn’t even matter. As far as a development in the city… as much as I don’t want to see it grow and lose its character, we are growing in a model that I learned in college before moving up here, was the example of what a green city would look like.

 

So it’s unfortunate, and the same guy Charlie Hales, he was the mayor. He lifted the bans because everything used to be one story or two all around Portland with the exception of some things downtown. And he lifted the bans on that, and then retired as mayor so he could go back to running his construction company, which was his job. And so he changed the laws, resigned, and then went back to his construction company and started building up the whole city. So the two things about the growth in general is when you look at a lot of the buildings on say… even Mississippi Street or Vancouver or anything, it’s apartment complexes and they all have stores or restaurants in the bottom floor. And that’s why it’s the example of a green city is because since all that stuff is really accessible for people… A lot of it’s in walking distance and they don’t have to drive to places, so it reduces on the overall carbon footprint. Also, I would rather have them build higher than out into Forest Park, and have it be a real urban sprawl that goes all the way out. How that affects the music scene is kind of tricky in some situations. Like No Vacancy Lounge just got closed down, and it was a great venue downtown, because there are tenants in the building who didn’t want to have a club in there. And that was a whole weird situation where the landlords knew that prior to having these people come in and setup a club, but at the end of the day we just lost a really great venue that was a quality space for people to connect.

 

AK: And is it your assumption that the tenants who request that are people that are new to Portland?

 

JT: No.

 

AK: No?

 

JT: Not necessarily.

 

AK: So you think there are people who have lived in Portland for a while and then choose to live in the heart of downtown and just think that…

 

JT: I should be able to, if I wanted to, live in downtown and not have a music venue – not have to hear bumping music all night. Even though I’m a DJ and everything. And if you go into a place and there’s an agreement on your lease that says that, then that’s what you’re buying into. These people tried to pull a fast one and have a thing in there. I don’t necessarily want to be living on top of a music venue, even though I’m very much a supporter of music. It goes back to the whole sharing walls thing. I don’t want to hear people fighting on the other side of my wall, or really even them bumping their music, personally.

 

AK: So do you feel you have an internal conflict then about your desire to not have sprawl, but also the idea that that sort of could be closing in more on the music scene that you’re part of?

 

JT: Yeah well, the apartments that they’re building… They’re building apartments and they don’t have – clubs isn’t part of that whole green model necessarily – and there’s enough spaces in town that we should be able to have multiple venues for all kinds of music without bothering any tenants.

 

AK: Okay. Do you think there’s enough venues in town?

 

JT: No. We just lost two. No Vacancy Lounge just closed down. Bar 15 is another one they just turned into a strip club. And so we maybe have five venues at this point. Because I do a lot of promotion and stuff too and looking to book at different places. Maybe ten tops, just because I’m not digging too far into my head. Yeah, there’s definitely not enough. 

 

AK: What were some of your favorite places that you’ve played or gone to for music that aren’t here anymore?

 

JT: Refuge is definitely one of them. It was a bigger one. That was huge and all kinds of music in there. I forget what capacity was there. I feel like it was 800 or something like that. It allows bigger acts to come through without having to be too big. So that’s one of them. The Crown Room was another one. It was one that was downtown, supported a lot of underground music and that was a really cool spot. GrooveSuite was another one. Again, underground electronic music basically. So you know, that’s where the creative people get to go and showcase their art and be able to grow and build without being already a commercial success. That’s a lot of what Portland is. People that are creative and are building stuff from scratch. And they need a venue to be able to showcase their sounds to different people. Even The Know. I said I like to get out of my comfort zone every once in a while. That was a more of like a rock spot, and that was over on Alberta and that closed a while ago too. So those are a few of them.

 

AK: On the flip side of that, what are your least favorite places to have seen music – or even perform music here. You don’t necessarily need to name names. You can describe the type of thing that makes you not want to play there. 

 

JT: Yeah there’s a couple places that are just small, enclosed. A couple of them… yeah, let’s just say it’s smaller venues.

 

AK: Do you feel like these are places that aren’t necessarily even supportive of music, but it’s sort of just kind of part of their business model?

 

JT: No. They want to be supportive. But space wise, there are not that many options at this point. And I have a lot of friends that have for years been looking into opening up a music space, doing types of things, and I don’t know if it’s permitting or what comes down at the end of the day that makes it not accessible. I was just over off Greeley or something, and there’s like five on the main street there, which it’s only one street. Denver I think is what it is. There’s closed businesses that are just closed – open for rent. But I don’t think any of those are gonna end up being a music spot of any kind.

 

AK: Do you think, even outside of just the sort of electronic scene that you’re more involved in, do you think there’s a Portland sound? Or even a Portland vibe?

 

JT: Yeah. I think there’s still some of that. What that is, is not necessarily my thing. It’s like the indie sound. There’s a good amount of rock stuff. Bands like Spoon and stuff, which I’m not even that familiar with. They were really big when I was first getting here. It’s like alternative rock kind of stuff. Dandy Warhols were a huge thing for Portland. They kind of put them on the map as far as things.

 

AK: So if someone though were to ask you, “Hey I’ve never been to Portland. What’s the music scene like?”

 

JT: Well, we still have a huge variety of everything. Just like when my friends come to town I say “what continent would you like to eat from.” And it’s the same kind of thing. Jimmy Mak’s is another one that closed which was a favorite of mine that was a jazz club. And he died, which was a big part of it happening but I wish that would have changed hands and continued to be a jazz club. So there’s still… I still have a place in pretty much any genre that I can suggest people to go to but they’re few and far between now. As far as the jazz clubs, there might be two now. I feel like there was at least six or eight when I first got here. And as far as the rock stuff, we’ve lost quite a few. Slabtown was one, where Nirvana played at and all those kinds of bands. That shut down years ago. At this point it’s pretty limited. As a matter of fact there’s the new spot in town called The Red, and I think it’s an eco-building and stuff, and I think they plan on doing a lot of corporate events, but they just had their first big music event there two weeks ago and now they’re already considering not having music events anymore. So there’s one happening in two weeks I think that is gonna be the next phase of their consideration and they’re gonna see how that goes, but it’s a big one too. It’s bigger than most venues. I think it’s around the size of maybe the Crystal Ballroom.

 

AK: Really? I missed that.

 

JT: Yeah, it’s pretty cool. It’s a pretty cool space. But who knows if they’re going to continue to have music there or if it’s just gonna be for corporate events and stuff. 

 

AK: But going back vibe-wise. Is there a different vibe when you’re playing music in Portland than other places? Or do you feel like again that you’re part of something that’s transcending a physical locale?

 

JT: People really love music here, and they love to get down. I like the vibes here more than other places that I play. I just got flown out to Key West two months ago and that was really cool, but people here are just into it. You know, they move. They’re comfortable dancing and connecting. They’re excited about things. I also play down in L.A. and San Francisco and stuff, and it’s definitely different vibes in each location. Some of them are more uptight. Portland has always been an extremely friendly place in general and you feel that in the crowds. But from scene to scene it varies. Even where I played last night, they were super impressed with the crowd that we brought there because as they put it, “Wow we were walking through the crowd and people were apologizing more to me than me to them, when I’m saying ‘Oh excuse me, excuse me’.” But most of the shows they have at that location, in their words people are just standing there and are like, “What are you doing?” “Where are you trying to go?” And there are people that are working there just trying to move through the crowd to get something done. So depending on different types of music, it can attract more of the people that we’re talking about – maybe from out of town. It’s something that’s a little more commercial I guess.

 

AK: Suppose though you were blindly spun around the world and set up to DJ in a room that you had no clue where you were, and let’s just say that you wouldn’t know anybody in the crowd, would you think you’d be able to know you were in Portland?

 

JT: Wow. Probably. From the way that people dress. Just from the style that’s here in Portland. Yeah we’re definitely a little rough around the edges, you know what I mean? It’s not all collared shirts and VIP and everything, although we are kind of moving that way in a few of the venues. They’re incorporating VIP sections and some places have dress codes and stuff like that. Which is not really a Portland thing but there are people that are ready for the future. And they see who’s moving here and rather than hold onto what was Portland, they’re trying to adapt to open up a club like in New York City, or like in San Francisco, and so they can kind of have their space set up and be attractive to the people that are moving here. So it’s something that they’re used to and they feel comfortable in. Rather than having be comfortable in the space that they just moved to. 

 

AK: Are you saying then do you kind of think that we’re entering a new… you know it’s always been Old Portland versus New Portland – is it now Old Portland versus New Portland versus New New Portland?
 

JT: I mean it’s hard to draw the lines of where New Portland and New New whatever that is, but potentially. I think it’s just the bigger wave of what is New Portland – newer Portland. People have been moving here from other cities for some time now. I think some people go to the venues that already exist here and they’re like, “Oh I wish it was like San Francisco or something like that.” And so there’s some people that are trying to cater to that vibe for those people. And everyone still gets to go there, but it’s kinda weird. In those kind of things is where the other people start to filter into it, and where people don’t want to talk to you that are standing next to you at the bar. It’s more like “What are you looking at,” rather than “What part of town do you live in?” So it goes back to the whole thing where like we were all rubbing elbows, we were all the same people. And now there’s all these people in between us. And yeah, there are venues that are kind of catering to that, but it’s not necessarily exclusive to anything. It’s just where do you want to be spending your time and where do you want to be spending your money. 

 

AK: Can you think of other places you’ve been that do sort of specific things within their music scene that you would like to see Portland incorporate?

 

JT: Not really.

 

AK: Well then if there were changes that you could snap your fingers and make in the Portland music scene, do you have any of those?

 

JT: I really don’t. I’m comfortable with where the scene is. I’m pretty comfortable. I mean, I wish we had more venues for sure. But there’s a lot of diversity still happening. All of the scenes are still here. You can go see jam music at the Goodfoot anytime that you want. You can go see rock music at a couple places in town. There’s a few that still have jazz and stuff. I haven’t been deep enough into the music scene in say Chicago, or any of the other places to say that I would want to incorporate that here necessarily. So yeah, there’s nothing I would want to change about the Portland music scene because what’s left, like we are still what it is. Even though it’s been slightly diluted, it’s still creative, and there’s still people being really original. And it gives you the freedom to be able to do so because you don’t have to necessarily fit into a box.

 

AK: So do you think of yourself as a Portland musician?

 

JT: I think of myself as a global musician honestly. Because wherever I go people seem to really love it. And so I don’t know if that’s that people love the Portland vibe, and that’s what they happen to love. But again, the music that I play is from all over. I like to incorporate a lot of live musicians with my DJ sets, which is something that’s definitely accepted here. I don’t know how much it would be in some of the other places. But yeah, you can take risks here and you can have some crazy ideas and see who’s crazy enough to make your dreams a reality. So… yeah.

 

AK: Okay, so if someone labeled you as a Portland musician, is that something you would take pride in?

 

JT: Yeah. Absolutely.

 

AK: It’s not something you’re trying to shun in any way?
 

JT: Oh not at all. I’m happy to be from here. Not at all. It’s just, when you put it that way… like I said, my sounds work with people no matter where we are. It’s not specifically niched down to where Portland people would appreciate it but not necessarily somewhere else. But I’m also a DJ. I’m not in a band. I’m not going for a particular sound. Also, I’m really influenced by a lot of sounds so I’ll play house music to bass music to funk, and a lot of different things in between. But I’m happy to claim Portland as my home and be a Portland musician for sure.

 

AK: Do you think personally for you, has it gotten easier or harder being a DJ here, or being a musician, than it was when you first started?

 

JT: Probably easier. But I just think that’s like any time that you’re spending a good amount of time in a certain location and the networking that comes with that and growing within a scene. You initially have to get out there and just get your sound out to the people to see how they even feel about it. And you start out doing the opening things. Then you’re able to move and progress. Either you’re opening right before people or you’re headlining a show, and so I’ve definitely been able to grow within the scene here but it seems like something that would probably correlate to any city that I was living in. 

 

AK: Do you have a clear line of where your own artistic integrity and potential financial paycheck diverge? Like are their gigs that you wouldn’t take, no matter what the money?

 

JT: Yeah, you gotta believe in the people that you’re working for. You want to support people that you believe in.

 

AK: So if Mike Pence wanted you to…

 

JT: Absolutely not. But at the same time, we throw benefits for Bernie where I give all the money to him. And so I think that music is something that can definitely translate a message even if you’re not a vocalist, and that you can use that power to support thing you believe in, and on the flip side not support things that you don’t. Yeah I would never play a gig for Mike Pence. Ever. But we actually get musicians and DJs together to support people like Bernie and messages we believe in. 

 

AK: Off the top of your head, can you think of one of your favorite gig or gigs that you’ve played in Portland?

 

JT: What The Festival was right outside of Portland and that was definitely one of my favorites. Just an amazing, very artistic community and festivals are outside. Plus they had a pool stage where I was able to play at the pool stage with a couple thousand people in front of me, and it’s absolutely surreal. It’s like a wading pool so people are in the water with floaty toys everywhere, and squirt guns and everything. You’re on a stage making a few thousand people dance, which is absolutely incredible. I really like the Doug Fir as an overall venue, and I love the sound in there so that’s fun to play. But you know when it comes down to it, when I really think about it, I love the Goodfoot. I play there a good amount. I’ve played at a bunch of places. Every place has a different vibe. But when people are going there, they’re going there to dance. And they don’t care who’s looking, and there’s like a circle that breaks out almost every time we do it, and people pop in there and they’re getting goofy with it. And then there’s real dancers, like the B-boys come out and stuff. That’s the kind of vibe where when you’re bumping into somebody, it’s more of an invitation into their life instead of “What are you doing here? Watch my shoes, or watch my drink,” or whatever. So you know, even though I’ve played much larger places, the vibe in there is just really on point and I know that every time I play there, I’m gonna have a great time with no questions asked. 

 

AK: Any last things about Portland and music that you feel you need to express?

 

JT: Not really. Just that there is still diversity here, and there’s a lot of those niches that first attracted me to here eleven years ago are still here. There’s not as many of them. You have to search a little bit harder. But they all still exist.

 

AK: Have you seen any change in how those individual niches and genres support or don’t support each other? Has it become more or less clicky?

 

JT: Not really. It’s always kind of been that way. There’s people that only like live music. There’s people that only like DJs. There’s people that only lock rock music, or hip-hop, and it’s just about how open or closed your mind is. But there’s not much support – like DJ’s aren’t really promoting live musicians’ shows unless they’re opening up for them or something. So everyone exists in their own realms, and I feel like each of those communities really support each other. But as far as supporting the other genres… not really. I feel like I’m one of the few people, few thousand, that like different kinds of things. And sometimes it’s getting out of my comfort zone, but… I felt like it was kind of individual even when I got here but I guess it depends on how you talk about support. I like to go out and support my friends that are doing things in different types of genres and stuff, but I’m also so incredibly busy with all my projects that it’s hard to find time to do that. And I guess that’s just part of getting older, and growing and responsibilities. But yeah, there seems to be a pretty distinct line between electronic music and live music. Period. No matter the genres, whether you’re talking about hip-hop, or EDM, or house music, or jazz, or funk, or rock on the other side. It’s like a lot of people understand one side or the other and they don’t necessarily want to take the time to figure out how to appreciate the other side. And it’s weird because I come from live music. I love live music so much. The emotion that comes with it. The improvisation that comes with it. But I also like to be able to rock a crowd of hundreds of people by myself, and not have to have a whole band there.

 

But that’s part of what I do incorporate live musicians into it, because the tones and the bass that comes with the electronic music but with emotion added on top from live musicians is something that’s really special. And there’s not really that many people out there doing it. So when you do it, and especially when you do it right, it’s just really amazing ‘cuz people have a great time just seeing you DJ. But when you’re watching a DJ, there’s not that much to watch them doing, and through the electronic music scene, like when I first used to go to raves, you couldn’t even see where the DJ was. The DJ was like behind a curtain or something. And what that allowed was there was not one focal point, and so everybody was able to dance with each other and meet. There’s no way that you have to look, and so some people are looking one way and some people are looking the other way which people are allowed to dance more together and stuff. Now that you’re all looking at the DJ, everyone’s facing one way. But somebody that plays guitar is watching somebody DJ and they’re like, “I don’t understand what they’re doing. They’re just pushing buttons.” But from a DJ’s perspective, that’s how we want you to feel. We’re trying to make it smooth so the transitions are where you can’t even tell where they are. So we’re doing our job right when there’s no hard stop between songs or anything because we’re blending things. But for a musician who’s used to – they just don’t know what’s going on technically that the DJ’s doing. And then at the same time, I hear a lot of people that like electronic music talk about noodling and stuff when they’re talking about bands. “Yeah it’s just all noodling.” But if we’re talking about noodling being improvisation and taking something outside of the box and recreating it on the spot and elevating it, that’s the beauty of music to me. Otherwise, you might as well just throw on the record.